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<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>design meeting 2021-07-21 · t-lang · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/index.html">t-lang</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html">design meeting 2021-07-21</a></h3>

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<a name="246748411"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246748411" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246748411">(Jul 21 2021 at 17:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hey <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="1977">@T-lang</span> design meeting today, document: <a href="https://hackmd.io/l8E3dUd_RRmPUBResXuWuw">https://hackmd.io/l8E3dUd_RRmPUBResXuWuw</a></p>



<a name="246757245"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246757245" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246757245">(Jul 21 2021 at 18:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm thinking it likely makes sense to either edit the issue description in place or to always have rustbot put in a first comment on threads like RFCs and MCPs where this might get invoked.</p>



<a name="246757283"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246757283" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246757283">(Jul 21 2021 at 18:07)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116122">@simulacrum</span> (what?)</p>



<a name="246757291"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246757291" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246757291">(Jul 21 2021 at 18:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>In the future rustbot will likely be leaving the highfive "hey thanks" PR thread starter comments as well, so those can be used too</p>



<a name="246757314"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246757314" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246757314">(Jul 21 2021 at 18:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>oh</p>



<a name="246757319"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246757319" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246757319">(Jul 21 2021 at 18:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>I agree</p>



<a name="246757338"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246757338" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246757338">(Jul 21 2021 at 18:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>I was going to suggest that but I forgot</p>



<a name="246757401"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246757401" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246757401">(Jul 21 2021 at 18:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>This ties in with the "@rustbot note" thing I suggested</p>



<a name="246757409"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246757409" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246757409">(Jul 21 2021 at 18:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yep</p>



<a name="246757413"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246757413" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246757413">(Jul 21 2021 at 18:08)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/triagebot/issues/1427">https://github.com/rust-lang/triagebot/issues/1427</a></p>



<a name="246757435"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246757435" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246757435">(Jul 21 2021 at 18:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>I like the idea, btw, of having an initial comment on any PR where rustbot can be used</p>



<a name="246757469"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246757469" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246757469">(Jul 21 2021 at 18:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>although we'd want to customize the descriptions</p>



<a name="246757489"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246757489" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246757489">(Jul 21 2021 at 18:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>but i'd be a nice "signal" to help remember, too, and a kind of explanation</p>



<a name="246757535"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246757535" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246757535">(Jul 21 2021 at 18:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>e.g., "rustbot is monitoring this thread. You can use "rustbot note" to add summary comments. If you are a team member, you can use "rustbot merge|close|stabilize" to kick off a decision process" things like that</p>



<a name="246757558"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246757558" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246757558">(Jul 21 2021 at 18:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>we probably don't have to say that second part, since team membres kn ow</p>



<a name="246757636"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246757636" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246757636">(Jul 21 2021 at 18:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it's always nice to have a link to useful docs directly inline. I know I always need to hunt down crater's bot docs for example.</p>



<a name="246757850"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246757850" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246757850">(Jul 21 2021 at 18:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes</p>



<a name="246757861"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246757861" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246757861">(Jul 21 2021 at 18:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>Another thought I just had: instead of "rustbot merge", maybe "rustbot approve"</p>



<a name="246757874"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246757874" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246757874">(Jul 21 2021 at 18:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>or "accept"</p>



<a name="246757902"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246757902" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246757902">(Jul 21 2021 at 18:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm thinking about what you said <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116122">@simulacrum</span> about nomination, I think I realize the conection is even broader now:</p>



<a name="246757921"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246757921" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246757921">(Jul 21 2021 at 18:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>e.g., we have been saying that we want to encourage folks who are nominating to be <em>asking a concrete question</em></p>



<a name="246757955"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246757955" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246757955">(Jul 21 2021 at 18:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>in some cases, I think that queston won't have yes/no form, but when it does, why not allow them to kick off a "decision"?</p>



<a name="246757978"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246757978" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246757978">(Jul 21 2021 at 18:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>this is probably what you meant but I'm catching up</p>



<a name="246758306"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246758306" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246758306">(Jul 21 2021 at 18:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it's close to it -- definitely making nominations more transactional is good. I also want to identify a way for us to remove a label or otherwise indicate "handled" prior to someone posting a response from meeting discussion.</p>
<p>As I think about this, it might be a good use for the "not lang member takes action" feature -- particularly, e.g., if I'm coming out of a triage meeting I frequently write a summary on some issue or PR of what was discussed. It'd be nice if I could say something like rustbot discussed @rust-lang/lang [...summary...] and that automatically checks boxes for T-lang on the most recent question, or so.</p>



<a name="246758341"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246758341" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246758341">(Jul 21 2021 at 18:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes, interesting</p>



<a name="246758374"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246758374" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246758374">(Jul 21 2021 at 18:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>I feel like there's a "rustbot tenet" underlying this of "rust team members are trustworthy" :)</p>



<a name="246758395"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246758395" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246758395">(Jul 21 2021 at 18:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>or "don't solve social problems with technical sol'ns"</p>



<a name="246758543"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246758543" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246758543">(Jul 21 2021 at 18:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>Maybe we'd want something like discussed in-meeting, though, and that <em>doesn't</em> "check boxes" but adds a new participant to the list "Meeting 2021-07-21" and represents their feeling as merge</p>



<a name="246758615"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246758615" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246758615">(Jul 21 2021 at 18:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>that way it is clear that individuals did not necessarily agree, but since the decision is reversible, this lets things go forward. OTOH, it is easy (and not a reversal) for someone not in attendance or who had different thoughts to register dissent/hold/etc</p>



<a name="246758728"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246758728" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246758728">(Jul 21 2021 at 18:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>I at least wanted the ability to say like</p>
<p>rustbot merge foo bar baz</p>
<p>with the names of the people in the meeting, although that is probably fairly tedious to get right.</p>



<a name="246758809"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246758809" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246758809">(Jul 21 2021 at 18:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah, and may not quite represent their opinions -- maybe just letting whoever is writing the summary (and as such is implicitly trusted) own the merge/close recommendation makes sense</p>



<a name="246768632"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246768632" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246768632">(Jul 21 2021 at 19:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think if people aren't happy with the summary coming out of a meeting, it's easy for them to say <code>@rustbot hold</code> and "I want to think about this more, I don't know that I agree with the consensus from the meeting".</p>



<a name="246769871"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246769871" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246769871">(Jul 21 2021 at 19:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>Right, but it likely makes sense for that to be seen as a transition from (nothing) -&gt; hold, not agree -&gt; hold. May be minor.</p>



<a name="246787153"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-07-21/near/246787153" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-07-21.html#246787153">(Jul 21 2021 at 22:16)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116122">@simulacrum</span> That's fair. In practice, I've noticed we don't often do the "check boxes for people who were in the meeting" thing, and I'd much rather have people check their own "boxes" by posting a comment.</p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
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